Appendix 12

When were you arrested? Were you aware that you could be arrested?
I was arrested very late in November 1990. After the election in 1990, the regime did not hand governance of the country over to the NLD, which won election. We, Members of Parliament, went to Mandalay. We, the MPs of the whole country, were accused of meeting in Mandalay to organize a parallel government. Thirty five MPs were arrested, and most of them were arrested ahead of me. I was not able to evade arrest, although I was aware that I was going to be arrested.

Why did you participate in the NLD even though you were aware that you could be arrested and tortured anytime?
I applied for NLD membership in 1988. Before the 1988 people's uprising, I was working at the Labor Department of the government. During the people's uprising, the Workers’ Union was formed. I was chairman of the union. I was pensioned off after the military cracked down. Later, I met with Daw Myint Myint Khin, who advised me to engage the NLD. I accepted this advice. There was the Central Labor Working Committee in the NLD. U Than Tun was the chairman of this committee. I was given the title of secretary to the committee. U Maung Ko was a committee member. We were selected for these positions because of our expertise in this field. This is how I became a member of NLD.

Were you tortured during interrogation?
My case was quite serious at that time. I was sued for high treason. The interrogation was at Yay-Kyi-I, the notorious interrogation center. I was the last one arrested. U Maung Ko was detained and interrogated before me. We knew U Maung Ko died from being tortured. We were sure of this, even though the authorities claimed he committed suicide. But he was not that kind of person. We realized that they severely tortured him beyond the level of human endurance when we were in the interrogation center.

I helped U Maung Ko’s family arrange the funeral service. Military Intelligence came to U Maung Ko’s house to arrest me the night before the weeklong memorial service. I was not there, but eventually I was arrested. They did not torture me much. I was not allowed to sleep during the interrogation process.

We heard the ICRC sometimes goes to prisons for inspection. During their visits, did something happen which outsiders could not know about?
We did not know it was ICRC when they visited first time to Insein prison. We only knew Red Cross. We thought it would be Myanmar Red Cross. Before their first visit, San San Nweh, Nge Ma Ma Than, Myat Mo Mo Htun (who is a daughter of San San Nweh) and a few prisoners from other cells were moved to the special cell, which is by the dog cell. Our cells were painted white. Window glasses also were painted and closed. We heard that later, ICRC was lied to and told our cells were empty warehouses. The prisoners from the other building were forced to sleep and be quiet. The ICRC was not allowed to see prisoners since it was prisoners' sleeping time. The ICRC did not see us on their first visit to Insein prison.

Were you persecuted in the prison? Who did it?
Jail wardens watched us closely. During the first prison stay, the wardens did not disturb us. At that time, the four prisoners in the cells were MPs. They showed respect to us. The intelligence personnel were the only ones responsible for us, although we were closely monitored by prison guards.

There were two women's ward compounds in Insein prison. One jailer was assigned for one compound. The second time, there was one more jailer who was in charge of the other two jailers. She wore three stars and was called Senior Jailer. She was an old lady. She always talked to me nicely. But our compound's jailer wanted me to respect her. Later, she became nice to me. We also did not give them any trouble.

We were providing them some of our own food. We had an understanding between them and us. I think we got some respect from them.

How did Intelligence control the political prisoners?
My second time in prison, I met with Daw Kyi Kyi San. They rarely came and saw us. Sometimes, they came with the prison authorities during weekly rounds – prisoner to prisoner checks. They watched us when we went out to the hospital for medical treatment. We were not allowed to talk to any other political prisoners in there. Sometimes we met with the male political prisoners. They told us not to talk to the other prisoners we met in the hospital. That’s it.

How did you handle the situation, remain in good health and spirits, and not get depressed in prison?
The first time in prison, I met with student activists in the cell. I did not show them any bad feelings that might demoralize them. They themselves were very strong-minded girls. They were very lovable girls as well. Sometime they did aerobic exercises, and we cheered them. We could not do meditation very much since we spent most of the time with them. At first, we were not given a chance to talk to them. Later, we could do it during walking time. They sang, and we talked about ourselves. The first time, I spent only one and a half years in the prison so I did not have many troubles on my mind.

After I was interviewed on BBC radio I realized that I would probably be arrested again. Just then, there were only a few people in the country who answered interviews with foreign radio about politics. The interview subject was, “Would the NLD re-attend the National Convention or not?" That was a very serious subject. I was aware that I would be detained for my answers. Telephones of the all NLD leaders had been cut off. I was the only one whom BBC could contact. I said in the broadcast who I was. If I hadn't given my name, the intelligence could not have found it. They didn’t catch me immediately. I gave the list of MPs who had been arrested to the interviewer. Many MPs from the whole country were detained or banned from travel to Rangoon. MPs from Rangoon were also under house arrest. A few days after the interview, I thought I wouldn’t be detained because I had not been yet.

In 1997, Dr. Than Nyein, Dr. May Wynn Myint and Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, attended the ceremony for organizing the NLD Youth working committee of Kamaryut Township. I did not join them. That night, they and I were arrested. I did not know that they were also arrested at that time.

I was not interrogated. I was sent to the prison, and they showed me the order of Home Ministry to me. This order withdrew the amnesty I had received in 1992 during my first sentence, meaning I had to be in prison until the old sentence was finished. When the jailer read this order I listened without expression. The jailer and his associates seemed very happy about that. They told me, "Take off your glasses, and read it again." I became embittered, but I did not reply. They watched me once every fifteen minutes. I showed them that I felt normal. But the following day, I felt quite demoralized living prison, which is like hell. I was isolated. The prison guard, who had been very friendly with me last time I had been in prison, did not dare to see me. I knew later that the guards had been warned by the jailer not to contact to me. If the guards didn't follow this order they would have been sent to departmental court. The guards were afraid of the jailer. They saw and feared me as a rebel.

After I was moved to the other isolated cell, I felt quite comfortable because I could see some friends - Daw Ngwe Ma Ma Than, Daw San San Nweh and others. The prison authorities played a sermon every morning at 5:00 am and 8:00 pm at night. One of the sermons was very good. "People should consider the present only. People should not feel sorry or angry for what they did and should not worry about what will happen and struggles in the future." I followed it.

I read the book of sermons in English. This book taught the same points as the one I just mentioned. When the Buddha was alive, he was asked a question. "Why are Buddhist monks' faces very clear and very comely?" He answered, "They see the present only. They don't think about the past and don't worry for the future." I listened to the sermon and I meditated. I recited "Than Boat Day" Pali verse a thousand times and "Pa Htan" Pali verse two times everyday. So, I had no free time each day.

Did you have any period in prison when you were free from pressures or happy?
Whenever my family visited me, I asked them, "Is someone sick or ill?" I asked about some people who were very old, because I worried about their health. One day, I asked about my aunty who was the oldest in our relatives. I was told, "She is good," but the answer was a little bit delayed. I realized that she was probably dead. I felt very uncomfortable when I got that kind of answer.

I was happy when my sons came to me. One is a seaman. When he could go out peacefully from the country for his work, I felt happy.

Did you get any help from your friends while you were being arrested?
Did they maintain relationships with you after you came from prison?
How did they respond to you?
Did you receive any suggestions about whether or not to stay involved in politics?

It was different the first time and second time. People were happy for my release the first time. Some cried. They thought I would never come out because I was given a 25 years to life sentence. First they did not dare visit me. Later, they did. At that time, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi was still under house arrest. I had contact with the other former political prisoners, U Kyaw Min and U Thein Tin, who died in the prison. I did not get in touch with other people. I thought some relatives who were army officers or the other civil department officers felt uncomfortable to see me. So I did not pay any visits.

When I was young I had been a teacher. Some of my formal pupils were police officers or officers of civil departments. Some of them were retired from their jobs. They collected some money and provided it to me while I was in prison. My family told me about this when they visited to me. Although they should not have told me, since the prison guards were taking notes about whatever we talked about during the visits, someone who supported me probably also faced danger with Intelligence. My family did it because they wanted me to be happy that these people supported me.

The interrogation officers and the prison guards were aware that you were a Member of Parliament. Did you receive more respect than the other prisoners from them because you are a MP?

Yes. The first time, I was arrested with the other three MPs. The second time, I was respected as the elder and lived without making problems. They called me "Ah May" (Mother). They knew that we should not have been punished. They were sure of that in our second prison term. The first time, they might have thought we were bad.

Did you have any extraordinary experience in prison?
I was guarded by the jailer when I went to the hospital to a see doctor when I was sick. Military Intelligence watched me in the, but they did not talk to me. The jailer guarded me in our family visit time as well. Only wardens usually guarded other political prisoners.

Were the prison employees aware that you were arrested without justice?
Actually, I pitied them more than myself because they were in prison 24 hours a day. They were stand-by on duty for at least three continuous days around the public holidays. When they were assigned for night shift they slept in the day. They had no time to read at all. So, they didn’t know anything.

They did not provoke us, as they knew that we were imprisoned because of our political activities. But when we, political prisoners, shouted or talked a lot among us they stopped it nicely. They did not know about justice or injustice. Their opinion was that prisoners were only prisoners.

Did you meet any employee who sympathized and helped you?
The first time, I was sympathetic and helped them - I gave a guard a maternity dress when I noticed she was pregnant. I treated them like my daughters. Sometimes I assisted them by giving some money when one of their family members died. Normally, they depended on our support. Then, they understood us. Mostly, we had good relationships as they realized that we were politicians and they could depend on us.

How did you see the situation for women political prisoners while you were in prison the second time, in 1997? Was it better or worse than 1990?

The first time, in the very first days, I was out from the cell only to have baths. At that time, November and December, I thought, we would be in the cell the whole day since I had had no experience before. The weather was cold. I put my hands in the sunshine, which came from the window, and wondered, “Will I always be living like this?" Later, we were allowed to walk out of the cell five or ten minutes a day. There were 35 rats in the cell; I counted them one day. One day, the chief jailers came around to my room while I fed some rice to rats. They saw many rats in my room and were surprised, but they did not seem worried about my health. They were just surprised I was staying with rats. I asked the Director General to do something about the rats coming into the cells. He gave me a very funny answer right away, which was, "I would send a cat for that." Then he sent a cat, but the cat gave up and ran away from women's ward as it could not stand living with so many rats. Those rats destroyed Daw Cho Cho Kyaw Nyein's clothes, but not mine. In my room the rats and I were like a family. At night, they used to run over my head. Some were very big. Fortunately, I did not contract any diseases from those rats. Then the prison authorities made concrete floors. The next time I was in prison, there were many cats in the ward, and we lived together with them.

The second time, I was placed in an isolated cell. It was intended to prohibit me from getting any help - food or other necessities. I was treated like common rabble. I was brought out of the cell only to have bath. I lived under this condition one and a half months. Later, I was moved to another cell. I was allowed to walk for 30 minutes out of the cell. Before I was released, we were out for an hour a day. Starting in 2000, we got more time to stay out of the cell. The time we were out was a more comfortable time for us. So, I should say getting more time at out was an improvement for political prisoners in the cell.

The second time, I was moved to death row. I was put with a woman, twenty seven years old, who was sentenced to death for a murder. Her character was very different for mine. I was not pleased to live with her. I felt disappointed because of her rude character, but I did complain or ask to move to another cell. I thought the authorities purposely placed that woman with me, an old woman political activist. Later, Than Than Htay, who's from DPNS, was moved to our cell and I felt better. I did not make any complaint to the authorities, although living with the murder troubled me deeply.

Amnesty International demanded your freedom. When did you learn of this? Is it while you were in the prison or after you were released or after you arrived in Thailand?

I learned of this when I was in Ban Maw after I was released.

In the prison, whenever my family visited me, the guards watched us and took notes on whatever we talked about. So, we talked only about personal matters, such as "How were your meals?" "What do you want to eat?" If they had talked about Amnesty International they would have had to talk in indirect ways so that the guards could not catch what we were talking about. My family could inform me only by saying, "Please try to maintain your good health.” I always asked them, “Is there good news?” They answered every time, “The news is good." I could not know if they lied to me only to please me.

My daughter was a government employee, a public prosecutor in the law department. She had been posted away from Rangoon because of me. She was in Ba Maw, Ka Chin State when I was released. I went to Ba Maw to live with her. I was invited for a “Ka Htein” religious donation ceremony, the offering of yellow robes to the monk before the full moon day of Ta Saung Dai, at a village around Ba Maw. The villagers knew about me and heard my voice from the media. They told me about what you mentioned before.

What was the toilet condition in the cell? I heard that some women prisoners became smokers because they needed to smoke while they were using the toilet to cover up the smell of the toilet from the cell partner.
It was worse the first time in prison. There were two people and only one toilet bowl without a cover in a cell. The bowl was four inches high. The toilet smell filled the cell after someone used the toilet. So, we tried to finish using the toilet around early morning 4:00 o’clock. Otherwise, the smell would disturb the whole day before next sewerage. The sewerage times were at 6:00am and 4:00pm.

If someone used the toilet during the lunch or dinner period, this stench of the toilet would spread out even to the other cells of same building. People could not have their meals because of this stench. Some people vomited.

The cell was 8 feet wide, 10 feet length and 12 feet high. I had one partner in the cell. The upper part of the door was covered with one square foot iron netting. We got some ventilation from only it and a back window, which was covered with a half inch diameter iron pipe. There was a jail office in front of the cell. The office was disturbing the ventilation. While one person released sewage, the rest could not avoid that stench.

My cell partner Ma Po, who is an NLD member, started smoking in the cell. She was embarrassed about doing her toilet and about the stench of toilet. She started smoking to cover up the stench with smoke while she was doing it. Ma Po became a heavy smoker. She smokes a pack a day. The stench from our toilet was very bad and strong because our foods were not fresh one and we could not take laxatives regularly. We could not stand the smell from ourselves. Besides, we also got the stench of the toilet of the cell that faced our cell.

When Dr Hla Maung Htay started working, he arranged to make chairs for using the toilet and covers for toilet bowls. The stench stopped spreading when we started using toilet covers. Later, we were allowed to use our own toilet pot. It was more convenient for us. When many prisoners were put in only one cell, some used the toilet bowl and some used their own plastic pot.

Later days of the second time, we could request prison guards to do sewerage after we used the toilet. It was an improvement.

How did you feel when you were released?
Before I was released the second time, I was asked about what I would do after I was released. Normally, if someone was asked that kind of question, she would be released within one or two weeks. I was aware that I could be released before long. I felt sorry for the others who had not been released yet, especially for Dr. May Win Myint (MP of Mayangone Township) who was supposed to be released. I missed all of them. I felt so sad for them although there were some people who were released ahead of me.

The very first days after I was released, whatever I ate or did, I remembered them. I was thinking that I could do that but they could not yet do that. I wasn't happy. I still feel that way now.

Why did you leave Burma?
I was forced to sign on an agreement (401/1 criminal procedure code), which showed that my sentence was suspended but would be extended if I engaged in any political affairs against the regime. I was in the prison twice, for one year and four years, a total of five years. I was given a 25 years sentence in 1991. According to the regime amnesty, the sentence had been reduced to 15 years already. So, I owe ten years to the regime. If I were arrested again I'd have to repay my outstanding ten years imprisonment. However, I could not keep myself from engaging in any political affairs, although I lived with my daughter in the countryside at first. I thought I shouldn't be living at home only because I feared returning to prison. I was the vice chairman of the NLD Rangoon Division before I was arrested. The party gave me this position again, and the party's social committee also gave me responsibilities. I had many things to do. As I became a leader of the NLD women in Rangoon Division, I had to work to improve women's education as well. The NLD Rangoon Division was low in manpower. So, I decided to rejoin.

A Military Intelligence from MI (7) saw me once a week. When he saw someone in my house, he asked me "Who is he/she?", "Did you go to the NLD today?", "What did you do today?" "Who did you met?" I felt upset.

We MPs were shocked and taken aback by the Depayin massacre. We planned to send an official letter to the regime denouncing the massacre. Some people from NLD Rangoon Division did not agree to do it. We, who agreed to sign on the letter, signed and sent this letter to the regime. The MI usually guesses what might be my doing.

I was arrested one night. I was interrogated concerning someone who had evaded the Depayin massacre. MI thought he or she had come and asked me for help. I was interrogated the whole night. I was sent back home the next morning. Before that, I was thinking about 401/1, which meant I'd be going serve my outstanding ten years imprisonment. This time, I was detained by MI (14). The people from MI who came and arrested me were new but they knew me. I was not sure if I would be released or if the Intelligence officers were aware that I owed ten years imprisonment to the regime.

I was a little scared. I don't want to be in prison again, because this time would not be easy for me. Finally, I decided to come to Thailand to be political, which I should and have to do.